Additional Information

Feb 22, 2011,01:12 AM
 

Thanks, SJX-san and Ken-san.

There are noting to add your excellent report, but I try to add some interesting information.

SII and EPSON have own "Baked Machine" to increase hardness of steel parts. Now steel parts made by them have over 700Hv
To be exact, 740Hv. It`s the almost same as vintage Patek. As far as I know, the most hard in current mechanical movement

Good example is winging system of Cal.9S65/67/87. These movements adopt "Reverser-type" automatic system.
It's almost the same as ETA and Rolex.
Reveser-automatic, Wiser system for productivity, but has weakness in abrasion.
but wisely, Rolex gives anodized coating on its aluminum reverser.

The reason of aluminum reverser is to decrease inertia moment of that.
If inertia moment of reverser is small, winding efficiency may be drastically improved.
On the other hand, they may abrasion easier(Please remind ETA 2892-A2)
Thus Rolex gives anodized coating on its aluminum reverser. Very good solution, I think.

Now Seiko do the same way on Cal.9S65/67/87. Seiko`s reverser is very small to improve winding efficiency.
And gives special coating on reverser. Though Seiko do not want to hardness of these parts (They are not talkative),
I heard it has over 700Hv hardness. Just say wonderful.

Before, Hardness was the weak point of Japanese watches. In 60's A Japanese Institute investigated hardness of steel parts.
The best one was high end swiss watches. I mean Patek. It`s almost 740Hv. Middle-range was 600-650Hv.
Meanwhile, Japanese watch, only 580Hv. But thanks to their endeavor, now over 700Hv.

Regards,

HIROTA, Masayuki
Main contributor of Chronos Japan

Picture: Reverser of 9S67




This message has been edited by HIROTA, Masayuki on 2011-02-22 01:22:28 This message has been edited by HIROTA, Masayuki on 2011-02-22 01:26:56

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SEIKO's Shizukuishi Watch Studio Visit - Appendix

 
 By: KIH : February 21st, 2011-04:26
Here is the appendix to SJX’s comprehensive report on SEIKO Shizukuishi Watch Studio – Trivia Version. See SJX's report here: home.watchprosite.com / The season has changed. This part of Japan tends to have relatively lots of snow. But this year is heavie...

A reminder to bring out my GS

 
 By: MTF : February 21st, 2011-08:44
Ken, Thank you for the supplementary report. It has reminded me to find my GS (manual wind and leather strap) that I use to wear when trying to be a 'salaryman' in Tokyo My watch was so accurate and precise that it matched the train departure times on JR ...

Thanks ken for your additional report.......

 
 By: Topcat30093 : February 21st, 2011-09:04
Which I found very useful at this present time, when I'm contemplating getting a GS. Have you got any thoughts on expanding your current collection of GS pieces? Regards Tony

Sure, I asked for a manual winiding Hi-Beat :-)

 
 By: KIH : February 21st, 2011-09:26
... not sure if they will actually make it, though Ken

Thanks so much for the report. Did you ask them

 
 By: cazalea : February 21st, 2011-09:17
if they have plans to accept visits like the Swiss do? A PuristsPro Grand Seiko tour, perhaps, for the lowly, non-moderator collectors? (wink) Cheers Cazalea...

Actually, they do.

 
 By: KIH : February 21st, 2011-09:25
They have been doing that. The tour is routine, as there is a shop for such visitors, selling the special editions only available at the factory, and I hear that they accept foreign collector visitors, too. You may want to contact your local Seiko or Seik...

Would you include the lowly moderator non-collectors . . .

 
 By: Dr No : February 21st, 2011-12:54
. . . in your tour, Mike? Sign me up!

I will be happily a tour guide for you guys! [nt]

 
 By: KIH : February 21st, 2011-21:21
No message body

We will have a PuristS on Tour of SEIKO

 
 By: MTF : February 21st, 2011-23:23
.....eventually. With only one PoT (PuristS on Tour) a year, we have to prioritise our factory visits. I need to decide........... but one good point is that 2011 is an anniversary year for both Seiko and PuristS, which means they are too busy to accept u...

Superb report, Ken. Thank you so much for that! [nt]

 
 By: boa2 : February 21st, 2011-09:44
No message body

Fantastic,

 
 By: InHavenPro : February 21st, 2011-09:47
thank you very much for this excellent report! You managed to perfectly complement the previously posted content. Best, Filip

a very informative and enjoyable read:)

 
 By: playtime : February 21st, 2011-10:29
thanks for sharing J

Thanks Ken

 
 By: fernando : February 21st, 2011-18:52
Very informative & appreciate the bit abour the history of the brand and its development. How did they respond to your request for the 10-beat caliber manual wind BTW? cheers fernando

They smiled back :-)

 
 By: KIH : February 21st, 2011-20:32
From "practicality" stand point, automatic movement is very logical for them and Japanese users love it or couldn't care less. But I conveyed PursitS' message and they heard it. So, I still have hope Ken

Keep our fingers crossed then.:) [nt]

 
 By: fernando : February 21st, 2011-20:41
No message body

Thank you so much for your awesome review!

 
 By: sklim8 : February 21st, 2011-22:34
I am liking GSs more and more

Additional Information

 
 By: HIROTA, Masayuki : February 22nd, 2011-01:12
Thanks, SJX-san and Ken-san. There are noting to add your excellent report, but I try to add some interesting information. SII and EPSON have own "Baked Machine" to increase hardness of steel parts. Now steel parts made by them have over 700Hv To be exact...

Hirota-san is one of the most knowledgeable writers

 
 By: SJX : February 22nd, 2011-01:28
for those who are unaware of his background. Hirota-san, great to read you on this forum! - SJX This message has been edited by SJX on 2011-02-22 01:30:11

Thanks, SJX-san!

 
 By: HIROTA, Masayuki : February 22nd, 2011-01:50
Hope to meet you in Tokyo! HIROTA

Aside : reverser-type automatic

 
 By: HIROTA, Masayuki : February 22nd, 2011-02:08
Cause of poor durability, I personally do not prefer "Reverser". But I`ve phrased three automatic movements which carries reverser system. One is Rolex. 1570, 3000 (except non-chronometer 3000) and current 3100 are just marvelous. It`s not difficult to mi...

Welcome!!!

 
 By: KIH : February 22nd, 2011-05:30
Hirota-san, thank you very much for posting. Come and drop by more often. You are such a spring of knowledge. Your knowledge will enlighten us all on many front. As SJX says, Hirota-san is really a knowledgeable watch journalist. Best, Ken

Arigato, Ken-san

 
 By: HIROTA, Masayuki : February 26th, 2011-02:20
I`m not a expert, but a watch geek.... By the way, Thank you for your excellent report! See you in Tokyo, Ken-san HIROTA, Masayuki This message has been edited by HIROTA, Masayuki on 2011-02-26 02:21:53

That is hardly an appendix!

 
 By: SJX : February 22nd, 2011-01:27
Thanks for the wonderful additional detail KIH. - SJX

Thanks again for this very interesting post.

 
 By: VMM : February 22nd, 2011-01:41
Vte

MTF, perhaps you could both do something...........

 
 By: Topcat30093 : February 22nd, 2011-02:25
To celebrate both the anniversaries? Or maybe you have......... already?

Thanks for the highly informative report. (nt)

 
 By: Ronald Held : February 22nd, 2011-04:56
NT

thanks for the info, its always good to see and read details of a companies work

 
 By: G99 : February 22nd, 2011-09:27
they made a handwind hi beat 36000 in the 1960's so there is no real reason why they cant make one now. this is no longer mine, but it was for over a year. thanks again Graham...

Thank you - brings back memories!

 
 By: wisemoth : February 22nd, 2011-17:01
Great post - thank you! I went there with my brother last October (though I couldn't take photos, so well done!). It was a fascinating tour, and it was brilliant to go to the home of a couple of my GSs (SBGW001 and SBGR037). Did you buy one of the special...

Generally, photograph is not allowed....

 
 By: KIH : February 23rd, 2011-06:07
.. and I heard that after my visit They even ask you about the firm you work for - they specifically bans visitors who work for other watch brands. About the photo, I introduced myself as a moderator for PuristS and told them of the purpose of the visit (...

excellent reporting and access..

 
 By: ocwatching : February 23rd, 2011-07:28
love the wall of certificates... thanks for sharing the unique insights to a great watchmaker

excellent reporting Ken

 
 By: Hororgasm : February 24th, 2011-06:08
thoroughly enjoyed this post. brings colour to SJX's earlier thread. best, Horo

Fantastic post, Ken! Don't know how I missed all this...

 
 By: dxboon : February 26th, 2011-09:49
...action on HoMe the last few days (Busy at work and then at home with general contractor repairing things is the excuse I'll go with, I guess. LOL!). I'm always impressed by the workings of Seiko. They seem very dedicated to achieving precision and reli...

My pleasure...

 
 By: KIH : February 26th, 2011-15:26
These people are really serious. Only home grown talents, but they know the world and will get there. I am much impressed, too. Thank you! Ken