Marvelous post, Nick, and lots to think about...

Jan 10, 2008,08:55 AM
 

whether the manufacturers "give a stuff" or not!

You're right, I think, that the term "luxury" is a very tricky one to define.  After all, I know there have been times when a nice warm bath on a cold night has seemed to me to be the height of luxury, but certainly that's something attainable by anyone with a bathtub and a hot water heater!  And there have been plenty of times when, after my Mercedes has wound up in the shop yet again, the simple fact that I don't have to worry when I turn the key of my Honda has seemed quite a luxury, too.  The luxury, in other words, of being able to take something for granted.

I suppose we're in the same neighborhood of the famous comment a Supreme Court justice made about pornography:  I can't define it but I know it when I see it.  And that, of course, takes us very far indeed into the realm of subjectivity.

To me, for example, it's basically axiomatic that a Mercedes Benz is a luxury car and a Honda is not.  I say that partly because it's certainly true from my perspective, and I imagine also from the perspective of the vast, vast majority of the car-buying universe.  But I do have to stop and step back for a moment, and put myself in the postion of a person who has bought a new Bentley with cash every year for the past 30 years, and has a couple of Ferraris to play with at the track on weekends.  To this person, a Mercedes probably doesn't seem like a luxury item; it probably feels like a step or two down into the mundane.

But I wonder if that's okay, the exception that proves the rule, so to speak.  In other words, maybe if it's luxury to the vast majority, then the tastes of the ultra-upper crust shouldn't change the consensus view.

Thanks for your thoughts!

-Rip

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Perfection and luxury: thoughts prompted by Thomas's talk to the industry

 
 By: ripwatch : January 9th, 2008-12:32
A quote from Thomas’s talk to the watch industry: “true luxury seeks perfection as its own end. It is this never ending search for perfection that justifies the sometimes absurd premiums that can be commanded by the luxury industry.” Very noble thoughts i... 

Do you work for Consumer Reports?

 
 By: JDV : January 9th, 2008-13:35
It sounds as though you are one of those people that wants to quantify everything, put it on a spreadsheet, draw a line in the middle of the paper and list the pro's and con's, etc, etc. If you are-great. There are loads of watches out there to make you, ... 

I agree, John, though not quite as harshly. and Rip...

 
 By: ThomasM : January 9th, 2008-14:24
projections are always dangerous, when projecting one's own expectations onto others, and what they write. Alas, like stereotypes, how else are we to economically and efficiently communicate, short of mind melds and data dumps? "Perfection" - you seem to ... 

No projections intended, actually...

 
 By: ripwatch : January 9th, 2008-19:18
Thomas, I wasn't projecting anything onto your words, believe it or not; I have no idea, ultimately, what your definition of perfection encompasses. Your words, rather, were a springboard for my thoughts. Nor was I attacking your perspective about luxury ... 

Belly-gazing: thinking aloud about things that may or may not

 
 By: ThomasM : January 9th, 2008-19:55
have any "answers" and the process of which may range all over the place, including positions that question, or are even inconsistent with, itself. Hi, Rip, That's my "simple" definition of belly gazing; I was engaging in it as much as you were (maybe mor... 

Ah, Consumer Reports...

 
 By: ripwatch : January 10th, 2008-05:24
Hi Thomas, No doubt you won't be surprised to learn that I read Consumer Reports, too. I do think it's mundane--after all, it deals with the day-to-day functionality of such fascinating objects as disposalls and latex paint--and kinda boring too, but it s... 

Actually no, I don't...

 
 By: ripwatch : January 9th, 2008-18:42

Thanks for provoking discussion …

 
 By: AndrewD : January 9th, 2008-16:18
Hi Rip, I realise that you are only trying to provoke discussion and its always rewarding to think a little more deeply about what these timepieces mean to us. The luxury of the mechanical watch for me is in the ‘humanness’, the history, and what time tel... 

Thanks, Andrew,

 
 By: ripwatch : January 9th, 2008-19:24

great questions!

 
 By: Chromatic Fugue : January 9th, 2008-18:38

Intent versus perfection

 
 By: AFSG : January 9th, 2008-20:40
Another angle of this discussion is the difference in terms of intent in the creation of an object, including watches. The intent of purity / perfection is what sets true quality pieces from mediocre ones – doesn’t mean they actually are perfect (rather i... 

I think of watches as I think of violinists.

 
 By: mkvc : January 9th, 2008-23:46
When was the last time you went to a concert and heard a violinist flub a few passages in a concerto? Probably it has never happened to you. A violinist who flubs a few passages is not competent to perform a concerto. Some concert violinists are known for... 

Beautifully put!

 
 By: tony p : January 10th, 2008-05:16
And one could extend the analogy a bit further - you could program the notes of a violin concerto into a sequencer and have them played back by a violin synthesizer. The notes would be more accurately played than by any human, but totally lacking in artis... 

I like where this is going...

 
 By: ripwatch : January 10th, 2008-06:03

As a PuristS, the pursuit of perfection...

 
 By: Ronald Held : January 10th, 2008-06:13
is a worth goal, but unobtainable, in an economic sense. Are there "grades' of perfection, or merely some level approaching it that we will accept. As to quartz watches, the RC ones are not really perfect, because they rely on external signals to maintain... 

Shouldn't equate luxury and perfection

 
 By: nickd : January 10th, 2008-08:20
Nice can of twisted worms to open A pseudo-philosopher's field day! I think that equating "luxury" and "perfection" creates confusion. It feels as though they should be intimately linked in a self-evident way, but I'm not sure that's the case. I think sev... 

Marvelous post, Nick, and lots to think about...

 
 By: ripwatch : January 10th, 2008-08:55
whether the manufacturers "give a stuff" or not! You're right, I think, that the term "luxury" is a very tricky one to define. After all, I know there have been times when a nice warm bath on a cold night has seemed to me to be the height of luxury, but c... 

I agree, Nick, you've expanded well on what by necessity was "intellectual shorthand."

 
 By: ThomasM : January 10th, 2008-14:43
Hi, Nick, Rip, 1. do you think it would have been possible to "present" Nick's expanded details into a 15 minute speech? 2. how many eyes would have remained open after 5 minutes, among an audience which probably consisted of 0 (as in zero) navel gazers? ... 

Rip, i have to disagree strongly on the Honda Accord vs Mercedes

 
 By: G99 : January 10th, 2008-15:26
i have a 2004 honda accord 2.4 ivtec automatic tourer in executive spec. it has full leather, sat nav, cruise in fact nearly everything the S class has except double glazing. it is supremely comfortable at all speeds up to its top of 133. it handles super... 

Rest assured, Graham...

 
 By: ripwatch : January 10th, 2008-17:59
I happen to own a Honda Element in addition to the Mercedes, and the Element is my daily driver. By choice. I could drive the Mercedes anytime I want, but I prefer the Element. Why? Because it works and I know it will never, but never, let me down. And it... 

Rip, i'm sure you know...

 
 By: G99 : January 11th, 2008-02:25
Rip, i'm sure you know my reply was a bit 'tongue in cheek'. you actually put in a very good analagy between function and passion. G

I got it, Graham :-)

 
 By: ripwatch : January 11th, 2008-06:04