Today's certifications are usually not satisfactory (marketing purposes)

Feb 07, 2013,01:26 AM
 

Hi Andrew,


First, I'd like to mention that these certifications (indpendant or not) are not a major creteria for me. I know the watch I'm looking out, I study them and I know if they are of high quality standard or not, enough to make a selection.

But, I would also like to have an independant certification, as long as:
a. it concerns many brands (and not 1 or 3 or just from one group etc ...)
b. it is independant



a. Too many different certificate for different brands. Each brand his own I could say.
A brand that creates its own stamp of a group that is asking for its own one through a "seemingly" independant organism is not fair enough. We are not idiots. This is good for communication but not enough for watch amators who seek a true independant judge.


b. Todays certifications doesn't seem to be independant or are depending on some brands that come to fetch them to certify their products. Thus (as financial analysts like S&P, Moodies etc ...) they are paid by their clients.

Further more, brands ask for a certification for selected watches, hence they can take one model only if they want and get this certificate to make publicity from it. This is not an overall process and that troubles me as it doesn't mean the rest of the collections are worthy as such.

I have particularly one example in mind of a 1-brand-certificate which is not satisfactory at all as of course it is not independant and it is biased as it is also the crafter but I won't mention it as it is not the place and it is my own opinion from what I could handle.

Just to take an example, even the Geneva stamp is something made and agreed by the Swiss industry. It's fair enough as it is their industrial heritage, an strong sector of their economy and they are right to defend it as much as they can. But it is not a completly independant stamp either.



To conclude, it would be a good thing to have a major real independant accreditation house, testing a wide range of products for each of the main brands but it doesn't seem to exist yet, and I'm not very optimistic about a future developement.

Brands use "certifications" for their com', for marketing purposes and handle them (misrepresent them ?) as they need.



You understand I don't trust them but I don't care that much as I make my own certificate with reading and handling and testing etc ...

Cheers,

Mark

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Comments: view entire thread

 

Independent accreditation and certification

 
 By: AndrewD : February 7th, 2013-00:35
How important is independent certification of a Swiss watch to you, and would it address your concerns about Swiss Made and the quality (in its broadest sense) of the final timepiece? I thought about this issue when I visited the Fleurier Quality Founda...  
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Patek Philippe Seal vs the Independent accreditation

 
 By: MervC : February 7th, 2013-00:45
As much as I like the claim that the 'PP Seal' is more rigorous and of a higher standard than the Geneva Seal, or the Qualite Fleurier Standard, I fell that having a independent / 3rd party test is better and most importantly fairer . However, I don't thi... 
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Today's certifications are usually not satisfactory (marketing purposes)

 
 By: Mark in Paris : February 7th, 2013-01:26
Hi Andrew, First, I'd like to mention that these certifications (indpendant or not) are not a major creteria for me. I know the watch I'm looking out, I study them and I know if they are of high quality standard or not, enough to make a selection. But, I ... 
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Well said Mark....+1+1+1

 
 By: moc : February 7th, 2013-03:15
Smoke in the eyes my friend...I am ,like you,my own certificate,and that suits me fine and its more than enough.... Mo
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+2...

 
 By: pplater : February 7th, 2013-03:25
There are as many 'certifications', 'seals', 'hallmarks' and 'brands' as there are lemmings. An Observatory certificate is a bit of fun; other than that, Mark and Mo are on the money. Cheers, pplater.
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It is about passion...

 
 By: dedestexhes : February 7th, 2013-04:22
I agree with your remarks. But even if there is an independent organism that would do test or judge on a specific seal...would it change my mind? We would perhaps all drive the same car if we would follow results from crash tests, breakdown figures. In re... 
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Once again, the Watch Snob has the answer

 
 By: Zhege : February 7th, 2013-06:06
Here's what he had to say about it recently (edited for brevity and forum rules) I am looking at several different watches in the $8-$10K retail range. One ... model has the features that I want. Yet for virtually the same price, but with less features, t... 
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Certificate tests should not be designed to allow passage.

 
 By: mkvc : February 7th, 2013-10:07
As far as I can tell, all existing certification tests are designed to allow a favored group of watches to pass. When the Poincon de Geneve decided that wire springs would be prohibited, you had better believe that first they checked to be sure their clie... 
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Pushing improvement

 
 By: AndrewD : February 7th, 2013-17:56
Perhaps a good certification process might actually push improvements in the final product? What if COSC said that from 2015 they were going to decrease their tolerances to -1 to +3 seconds per day? Would that lead to a better, more robust, more accurate ... 
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The ISO 6425 printed on my Certina diver is a superfluous detail

 
 By: mkt33 : February 7th, 2013-10:40
but as a "diver's watch" I'm glad that it conforms to and tested to pass an agreed upon international standard. I am sure that it is part of Certina's marketing str ategy for this wa tch and I bet there are a lot of other "diving watches" that cannot meet...  
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Bear in mind these test are "as at", which means that x months into ownership,.........

 
 By: Hororgasm : February 7th, 2013-10:47
It has no residual value. If you go diving, say 6 months after you have bought the watch, and you found water seepage, ISO is not "accountable".Certina might repair or offer a new watch to you, if it is within the warranty period. Best, Horo
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yes, I understand. What is important to me is that when Certina

 
 By: mkt33 : February 7th, 2013-11:13
designed the watch, the engineers incorporated elements which allowed the Action Diver to pass ISO 6425. Plus the deepest I know I will go is to the bottom of the 12 feet pool at the local Y :-) Cheers, Mike
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I rather no accredition or industry wide level accredition, not bullshit like PP seal

 
 By: Hororgasm : February 7th, 2013-11:10
COSC is pure commercial, easily obtainable and fairly low standards...how many standard mechanized issued Rolex Submariner movements need to be certified?? PP seal is but a self aggrandizement exercise and branding given to in house QC...one industry insi... 
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It is certainly akin to ...

 
 By: AndrewD : February 7th, 2013-18:06
... putting the Big Bad Wolf in charge of the children's nursery and the piggery. So I see that you agree with external, independent accreditation of a facility. For this to work we have to have defined standards that the facility must be audited against.... 
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Horo, as always...

 
 By: elliot55 : February 10th, 2013-07:50
... you are spot effing on! - Scott
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its not something that concerns me one bit.

 
 By: G99 : February 7th, 2013-11:10
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Having been to the Fleurier Quality Foundation I was impressed by the rigorous nature

 
 By: Mitch K : February 7th, 2013-18:45
of their testing protocol. It is as good as it gets. The COSC certification only looks at a selected number of movements prior to encasement and certainly in that process the accuracy of the movement can be affected. The QF testing does assess each certif... 
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The FQF is on the right track ...

 
 By: AndrewD : February 9th, 2013-04:11
Thanks for your comments, Mitch. I like the concept of the FQF and the fact that it covers issues like performance on the wrist (Fleuritest), robustness and build quality (Chronofiable test), parts finishing and addresses the Swiss Made fallacy. But of co... 
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