Testing movements VS watches; historical reasons for COSC

Nov 30, 2007,00:54 AM
 

The COSC tests are conducted on movements, rather than watches; there is no requirement that the movements have to be finished. Even with the change in COSC procedures, an unfinished movement with the complication module could be tested. I personally do not believe that the results of the test are a gauge of the performance of the watch on someone's wrist. A movement will undergo a lot of handling/finishing/casing up, after the test and this could affect its timekeeping, although it is unlikely because modern movements are just too good.

That brings me to my second point, which is the changed nature of watch movements. The history of COSC is simple, the body is the successor to the famous observatory tests of the 19th and 20th century, in fact COSC was former by a merger of the bodies that did the observatory tests. These tests were conducted in a time when watchmaking technology was no where near as advanced as it is today.

Back then an expensive watch from Patek or AP would probably keep better time over a long period than a cheap watch, because of the materials used and the construction of the movement as well as its finish. Movements that were observatory certified were truly fine movements; look at the examples of such movements today and you will usually find very fine construction like a big balance wheel, an elaborate regulator, a finely finished escapement and of course a Breguet overcoil.

Today, cheap mechanical watches keep just as good time as a 'fine' watch, due to the advances in manufacturing technology and the immense volumes of production; the average ETA movement is a brilliant piece of engineering. COSC does not prove a watch is a better timekeeper or a better quality timepiece - in other words it does not mean much, in my humble opinion.

The same could be said for the Geneva Seal. Once upon a time the requirements of the Geneva Seal meant only the best firms with the most skilled watchmakers could create watches that met those criteria. Today a good amount of finishing requirements can be done by machine, or at least with the help of machines, so the presence of the Geneva Seal does not prove that a watch is hand-finished to the highest standard. Admittedly, I believe brands like Patek and Chopard still do much of the finishing by hand, but I would not be surprised if some other brands that tout the Geneva Seal on their movements actually enlist substantial help from automated processes to meet the requirements.

- SJX

This message has been edited by SJX on 2007-11-30 01:19:54

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Swiss-Made and COSC rules are changing

 
 By: MTF : November 29th, 2007-22:43
Forumners, I heard that: In future, the minimum value of Swiss-ness to qualify as Swiss Made will be 80% but that is easily covered by wages so that means that proportionately MORE of the components can be imported and "finished" or "assembled" in Switzer...  

One may matter; the other ismeaningless.

 
 By: mkvc : November 29th, 2007-22:56
The Swiss-made label has been a joke for a long time and apparently will continue to be a joke. A brand that relies on that label for a perception of quality is very unlikely to have the actual quality to interest a well-informed buyer. If the industry re... 

Testing movements VS watches; historical reasons for COSC

 
 By: SJX : November 30th, 2007-00:54
The COSC tests are conducted on movements, rather than watches ; there is no requirement that the movements have to be finished. Even with the change in COSC procedures, an unfinished movement with the complication module could be tested. I personally do ... 

One more thing...

 
 By: SJX : November 30th, 2007-01:06
As I wrote in my post in the Azimuth thread below, the requirement to test base movements fitted with modules will not affect COSC very much. Rolex, Omega and Breitling make up nearly 90% of the movements certified by COSC ( click here for numbers); Rolex... 

I see

 
 By: SJX : December 1st, 2007-17:59
I was under the impression that most Breitling and Omega chronos use the Valjoux 7750 now, especially since it is now available in the "tricompax" layout, and because the ETA2892-based modular chrono is such a small movement. - SJX

Speedmaster Reduced is modular

 
 By: ei8htohms : December 1st, 2007-18:47

The implications are deeper than at first sight.......

 
 By: MTF : November 30th, 2007-07:36
Suppose that whole assembled base + module or integrated movements can be tested. Suppose the most common currently outsourced chronometer movements become exclusive to the original manufacturer/group only.......er.....that would be Swatch Group keeping a... 

But that's not caused by COSC

 
 By: SJX : November 30th, 2007-07:47
That's because from '08 or '09 Swatch will only supply finished movements and not ebauches to non-Swatch group brands. Already many of the smaller brands are already being squeezed out; dials, hands and ETA movements are tough to get. It's not an issue wi... 

Not a cause but

 
 By: MTF : November 30th, 2007-08:55
SJX, I agree that COSC rule changes do not affect the number of COSC certifications per year much. Rolex, Omega and Breitling will account for most of those. But, I'm just repeating what the lucky (or foresighted) executives who have invested in making in... 

The 80% Swiss made rule was refused by the Swiss "parliament" as

 
 By: alex : November 30th, 2007-01:48
supposedly it was contrary to the free trade treaties between Switzerland and the EU

Sorry to disappoint..

 
 By: DonCorson : November 30th, 2007-11:27

Somebody bite my bullet :)

 
 By: cen@jkt : November 30th, 2007-03:11

No and no...

 
 By: nickd : November 30th, 2007-03:21
Most recent purchases: - antique pocketwatch, vintage, vintage, Nomos, new Seiko, vintage Seiko. The Nomos is as accurate as you could want, and the Seikos are more than accurate enough. Vintage, I don't care. Antique, I'm gob-smacked they're still as acc... 

Wow! Nick you are extremely Accurate! [nt]

 
 By: gurulikeu : November 30th, 2007-03:42
No message body

One "Geneva Seal" brand

 
 By: MTF : November 30th, 2007-07:26
did precisely that in the beginning. Every watch was supplied with a "birth" certificate with passport size photo of the dial attached and watchmaker's signature. How did you remember that? MTF

Is the brand u're referring to Roger Dubuis? [nt]

 
 By: AnthonyTsai : November 30th, 2007-19:56
No message body

...............

 
 By: MTF : December 2nd, 2007-09:46

80% seems to be a common # to use

 
 By: AnthonyTsai : November 30th, 2007-07:10