pplater
5425
Buy in here, Steve...
You are a man who has amassed a most impressive and most eclectic collection of watches. We have seen through your eyes the raw beauty of some otherwise unheralded pieces. Your sense of discrimination is writ large. Tell us what 'pulls' you to these many and varied pieces.
Cheers,
pplater.
Watches as machines / machines as watches…
The views expressed here are a public attempt to resolve a personal conundrum. By definition they are personal views; they should not offend, and the fact that they may not be shared views will not offend. It has been a personal mission for some while to ...
Good and bad/bad and ugly
I must say that I enjoyed a lot reading your nicely written essay of what I perceive as generally marketing cannon fire that is bestowed upon us it is hard to different between friend and foe nevertheless I feel that it is good to have good - beautiful - ...
Only in the presence of ugliness...
...can we know beauty. Is that the theory, Damian? There is no light without dark? Why should that be so? Surely a 'pure', 'simple', 'beautiful' time engine can be made without there needing to be an 'ugly', 'unnecessarily complex' one as well? What is it...
My straightforward answer is
I strongly believe that we buy subconsciously If I think hard and that is what you made me do :0) I can recollect admiration with my mother's Pelikan fountain pen when I was couple of years old ...yes the classic black & green outlay there is still story ...
cen confused. cen stoopid.
. Seriously, pplater, you seldom write, but once you write I can hardly understand what you were trying to convey. And thank you Ares for making me the most notorious weirdo of the Purists . It's so dense and full of passion, I can barely able to digest i...
Not weirdo but
a man with distinctive taste! albeit being biggest weirdo among PuristS is not easy task to achieve .... you must admit ;0) ... regarding our obsession(s) Looking forward your next purchases cen because I know it will bring some new winds on Forum Sincere...
It's a dirty job, but somebody gotta do it
don't worry, I am proud to be a weirdo. cen@jkt
Your last pic.....
the Haldimann,is so far ahead of its time(pun intended)and may represent the ultimate horological creative concept! I totally get it - we should all have one and be done with it! LOL cheers fernando
I think that's the H8 Sculptura
Lovely piece if you can get past the fact it doesn;t tell time at all LOL
To me that represents thinking "out of the box"
I applaud its courageous concept,design and execution. I would love to have one, if not for anything but a conversation piece. You can imagine the following scenario: Onlooker: Is that a tourbillon you're wearing? Me: yes Onlooker: Wow,its cool. Eh, how d...
That's funny, Fernando and ...
...this watch answers those who think that a tourbillon is not useful in a wristwatch to improve accuracy. Excluding multiaxis tourbillons, of course it isn't, but who cares? It's a brilliantly designed and executed micro-mechanism and really does live up...
please stop!
Hi, Andrew, all, Whenever I read statements like that, "of course tourbillons aren't useful in a wristwatch to improve "accuracy;" or the opposite, "of course it does..." I have to cringe. It is NOT so nearly cut and dried as that. In the hairspring verti...
Thanks for the clarifying disclaimer, Thomas!
Of course I agree. I still like the way the Haldimann H8 ‘tourbillon only’ watch challenges us to think of this ‘complication’ as a micro-mechanical marvel. It neatly gets around the discussion of whether tourbillons do or do not i...
The H8 Scultura doesn't tell time? I'm so disappointed...
For me, a piece like the Sculptura does tell time - it tells me that time is constantly passing, and reminds me that our puny little minds try to harness and control and "measure" it in a way we can comprehend, trying to tie in natural recurring events so...
Ha! I love your last sentence LOL
women always hear everything somehow LOL. While I do love the Sculptura, I guess I'm still governed by a rational side which tells me that if I buy a watch, it should fulfill the basic function of a watch and that is telling time. Unless I see the Sculptu...
Your wish...
...is his command. Isn't this a Sculptura with an hour and minute hand? Cheers, pplater....
No and Yes
No in that this is the H1 and yes in the sense that I think its exactly the same tourbillon movement. The ideal Haldimann for me, if I could afford it, would be the sculptura in its current form but with just hour and minute hands added. No need for any m...
An existentialist take...
to record the passage of time is justifiably presented by the Sculptura and to my understanding feasible as a conscious work of art.However, the mode by which the passage of time is conveyed to the still somewhat backward human populace is questionable an...
How very, very shrewd….
As Groucho Marx put it, “Either he’s dead or my watch has stopped”. The owner of a Sculptura knows that time is passing – in some respects, what more is there to know? That is distilling Time into its purest essence and we seem to have consensus that a ma...
Man! This is like the "self-actualization" horological post!
I definitely ain't at the level of you guys whatever it is LOL.
Right before my eyes …
The H8 is exactly what I was thinking of when I said that watches remind us both of the passing and presence of time. A watch with hands marks the passing of time, but the H8 ‘watch’ really shows the presence of time. I hadn’t thought of it so clearly bef...
guys, you really gladden my heart.
I had almost given up that I was all alone, yet again. Your posts really give me hope that no, there are others who can "get it." (no superiority implied for "getting it") Cheers, and thanks. TM
this is just my opinion...
and my justification for spending much resources in this hobby. i view watches as art. otherwise, my cell will do fine telling time. from wikipedia , the definition of art : Art is the process or product of deliberately arranging elements in a way that ap...
And your opinion is valued…
You begin with the phrase “As with all art forms..”. Undoubtedly, there is an artistic dimension of one sort or another to most, or all, of these little machines. There is a whole thread – a whole website! – in the question of R...
Visceral appeal taps into something extremely deep …
Whoa pplater. You have been quiet for awhile, but you have obviously been gestating this post and it’s great to read the ‘egg’ now it has been laid. So many strands to this thread and already, as I read the responses, I see that purists are picking up on ...
Just the tiniest bit OT....
"Has anyone equated horology with religion?" Well; yes, actually. William Paley published “Natural Theology” in 1802 and expounded the notion that the existence of a huge variety of animals and other complex organisms is proof of the existence...
fantastic post, complex topic
I have been thinking about a closely related topic recently, maybe it adds to the discussion. I agree that my own enjoyment also is tied to watches being little machines (as opposed to: jewelery or adornment, which I abhor, guess I have not integrated my ...
Wonderfully insightful Andreas..
...and deserving of a lot more thought before any attempt at a response. Thank you! Cheers, pplater.
“There are some watches that are *about* being machines”...
Let’s drill down on that for a moment Andreas. You have explained very well how and why you feel that the La Tradition is *about* being a machine. You mention the self-reference of the design, but of course there are very few watches or brands that have s...
some that come to mind
A very successful example to me was the Grande Reverso 101 Art Deco - the tiny 101 movement is clearly meant to be the "real" diamond in this watch showcased beautifully and centrally. In addition, I thought it was a witty statement on the changes of tast...
A watch is a watch
But if you want to create a sense of uniqueness or exclusiveness, you may call it as a piece of art or machine or weapon or anything you feel that it could very well catch the heart of the "smart" buyers. However, that does not mean that all of them are t...
Agree, and disagree...
A watch is indeed a watch Ling, but whilst we may call some of them art, or some of them weapons, or jewellery, or tools, or whatever you will, they are all machines. That is where this began. Which are the watches who remember that they are machines firs...
Hi pplater, the knowing Emperor is the aider and abettor.
If the knowing Emperor wants to own something which is luxury, unique and exclusive (even if in real case, that may not be so), they have to sing the same tune with the brand. I believe (through my own abservation) that the elementary drive could be the e...
a very good topic...
and one I feel is inextricably tied to thoughts about abstract worth, intrinsic value, and market perceived / market assigned value. (my original planned next head scratcher installment.) Have to run off to a meeting shortly, I'm looking forward to coming...
Probably not what you are looking for,
but a web search yields this link: www.kabanya.net
Thanks, Steve, thanks, Kevin.
Very interesting. It goes to show - just how many ways can a watch be photographed? At some point, similarities in shots become an inevitability. Cheers, TM
Buy in here, Steve...
You are a man who has amassed a most impressive and most eclectic collection of watches. We have seen through your eyes the raw beauty of some otherwise unheralded pieces. Your sense of discrimination is writ large. Tell us what 'pulls' you to these many ...
Like a [watch] journalist in Iraq...
...the photo credits are "embedded" ;-) Thomas, as footnoted in the OP, all photo credits are embedded in the filename of the image. Taking the Dufour shot as an example, right click on the image, begin to ‘save as’ and you will see that it is...
Quality?
pplater, I like this thread very much, and I agree in with you in many ways. I tend to enjoy "classic" watchmaking, and I agree that "...what was once the norm in modern watch aesthetics has been gradually shouldered aside to make way for the flood of cas...
Qualities...
"Your post, as I see it, is really about quality".. Well, maybe Jed. On the primary level it’s about qualit ies ; the qualit ies of a watch (or a car, or another thing) that render it instinctively compelling. It seems possible that a watch is capable of ...
Utility oozes quality, pplater. [nt]
This message has been edited by CaliforniaJed on 2009-11-19 09:09:42
Interesting topic to be sure.
The question posed is like a diamond . . . it is mutli-faceted; can be viewed from many angles and perspectives and further under different light each facet can appear altogether different than before. That is the human experience; the fact that the "ligh...
You are right, of course…
There’s this nagging feeling, though, that there is something elemental that both transcends all of the ephemera of time, fashion, taste, maturity and so on, and at the same time underpins the ‘taste du jour’ at any point along the ever-...
Pplater this has to be one of the finest posts here in a long time...
I don't know where to start in response. Suffice to say, I suspect our collective views are relatively aligned. Having read the responses, I'm not sure what to add other than some images of a few of the many pieces of micro mechanical art that resonate wi...
"Awww, shucks...."
Thanks Tim. You are right, we seem to be on the same wavelength: every one of those beautiful images 'belongs' somehow in the 'stream of consciousness' gallery. Maybe the collective sensibility is more cohesive, more 'universal', than we might credit? Che...
The passage of time,
That is what these "Machines" do, mark, measure or simply show it moving, as in the H8. Our human spiritual being has an inherent appreciation of "time" and it's passage, this I suspect is why we are drawn to watches, clocks, sundials, etc. Now this begs ...
Time as a Function, Time as an Expression, Time as a Sublimation.
- Watches can be only seen under a functionnal point of view, a tool to read the Time. Till the 60ies, it was only a mechanical movement, since the 60iesn we have the choice between Quartz or Mechanical movements. If we consider a watch as a tool, just us...
A fascinating point Nicolas...
It seems that you say that a watch which is truly 'just' a machine - a tool - is one for which we should not have to pay very much: to be a tool it must be a commodity, and to be an accessible tool it must be an affordable commodity. If that is right, it ...
Should something called a "watch" be restricted to a machine...
where you can read off the time clearly and accurately, or listen to it in the same fashion? The others might be labeled works of art, kinetic sculptures, etc?
The title just reminds me of MBF.
Or am I the only one? Interesting writeup. cheers Pat
You are not the only one...
...and that is a mark of MB&F's success in very deliberately positioning their watches in that conceptual niche. It is an interesting, if contrary, phenomenon. As 'machines' go, they are elaborate, complicated and (without meaning this at all in a neg...
A Simple View
Most of us, including myself, tend to overly complicate things. Yes, watches are machines. The companies that produce them ultimately do so for profit. One would like to believe that the more profit they make, the more money they have for R&D leading ...
Impressive, thought provoking post...
And now I've zapped up most of my morning reading and contemplating it and the responses, lol. However, it has been an enjoyable enlightening process. Many various thoughts have been made through the responses to your thread so I don't know what more I ca...
It’s personal …
Ping , I think this is an excellent contribution to the thread. It underlines that we each come to horology with our own set of ideals and conceptions, largely based on our personalities, past experiences, etc. I have said before that I came to mechanical...
A genuinely refreshing angle, Ping...
... and thank you for it. You ask: "why question it at all? The answers, if they even exist, are surely complicated, and stem deeply from your psyche, your upbringing, your genetics, the essence of who you are." Oh, how liberating that would be, and oh, i...
Finally...
a post that is good and I can understand. Thanks for bringing back my dignity by writing something good in a simple but beautifully constructed writing I totally agree with you. For me, this hobby is an escape from everyday stress. I don't want to ask why...
May I offer symbolism . . .
. . . as the key, pplater? The selection of the H8 as your final submission might be subliminal evidence; it portrays the universal ideal implicit in the Omega central tourbillon, stripped of any temporal references . . . cordially, Art
Replete with symbolism indeed, Art...
But to complete the allegory of the circle of Life it would first be necessary to obtain one of these: and we would still be left to resolve the struggle between darkness - ...and light - Cheers, pplater....
pplatter! The first Omega central tourbi squelette of sorts
Can yopu PM me the reference. I'd like to google to find out more.
A reference and a grievance...
The reference (courtesy of the Omega website) is 513.53.39.21.99.001. Anthony Tsai made a terrific couple of posts you may wish to read also - click here The grievance? Both of those watches are at the boutique, and not in the watchbox! Cheers, pplater.
A Kinetic Sculpture
Honestly speaking from my very personal point of view most of the watches shown in your initial post are nice examples for horological pieces of art (I avoid the term ‘kinetic sculpture’ here, because it could be considered as a little insulti...
Great post, Pplater!
Another classic post from you, sir. There are several questions and threads of thought running through the post that intrigue me, and make me laugh at the same time (Blind albino dolphins? From whence do these thoughts flow? I have this strange mental pic...
SURPRISED IT HADN'T BEEN DONE BEFORE ...
Expensive to purchase and maintain, fragile, inaccurate & ultimately utterly useless from a practical perspective, these are the exact " qualities " that make these machines so attractively endearing to me. Three cheers for the Sculptura ! This message ha...
