further technical observations

Oct 19, 2008,07:39 AM
 

John,

As a watchmaker I appreciate your technical input and I raise similar concerns though I would like to see the Bucherer movement in my hands to reach any definitive conclusions.

But, I've attached a photo I stitched together of three different automatic rotor systems for comparison and discussion. One is the PP calibre 350 you already mentioned, another is the Longines calibre 340 with its outer geared track, and the Perrelet company celebrated double-rotor movement. All three have one criteria in common which differ in construction from the new Bucherer system. That is they are all primarily supported at the top center with screws or through a ball bearing unit. The logic was that the added smoother traction on the peripheral enhances the rotation of the weights.

Perrelet uses a double rotor winding system with one rotor at each end of a common shaft. The theoretical advantage is that it places a balanced stress on the shaft as opposed to having a weight at one end only applying forces at right angles to the axis of the shaft. Rotor shafts and mounts used to break because of these forces. With contemporary ball bearing rotor mounts the issue is moot.

But even standard oscilating weights in today's modern watches experience stress and wear on their ball bearings. I have seen all too many watches, which received severe shocks, come in for repairs because the rotor wobbles (has too much play) on the tiny ball bearings. Either the ball bearing unit or the complete rotor needs to be replaced under those circumstances.

The Perrelet automatic winding system represents a considerable improvement on existing technology as it draws its energy from two rotors revolving around a common shaft meshing with a pinion that is mounted on a special support. This patented technical innovation has earned a dozen international awards.

In principle, at least, twin rotors turning in unison would reduce the one-sided weight and distribute it evenly between the two interdependent rotors. As Perrelet is a small company with a limited production, I know of no extensive research or tests done by anyone to determine the efficiency of their double rotor system in comparison to single rotors found on the same caliber movements.

Your point of concern that the outer weight on the peripheral in the Bucherer reduces the mass inertia of the weight is well taken.

Regards,
Jack Freedman




This message has been edited by jfsuperior on 2008-10-19 07:48:45

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An outsider brand, Carl F. Bucherer, and its innovative new in-house calibre

 
 By: SJX : October 17th, 2008-22:35
Located in Lucerne, Carl F. Bucherer owned by Bucherer, one of Switzerland's oldest watch retailers, but run as an independent company. The parent Bucherer Group is a huge enterprise with revenues exceeding CHF500 million, making it one of the largest ret...  

Yes. SJX's observations are correct. THIS is a movement of great importance.

 
 By: bernard cheong : October 18th, 2008-18:00
The placement of the power gathering pinion off to the edge, away from the centre is of incredible significance. This will be the very first movement to do it. Complex and beautiful stuff can be placed over the movement to bring us all sorts of wonderful ... 

not the first, but possibly the last...

 
 By: ei8htohms : October 19th, 2008-01:05
Hello Bernard, I'm gonna have to disagree strongly with your observations about the significance and particularly "innovation" of using a peripherally mounted rotor. Citizen attempted this in the '60s with little success and so did Patek Philippe (Cal. 35... 

How can winding efficiency be quantified or tested in the industry?

 
 By: Kong : October 19th, 2008-01:30
Thanks for the note, John. Looking for some standard test references instead qualitative statements on many PR materials. Kong This message has been edited by Kong on 2008-10-19 02:21:55

I know of no universally agreed upon testing methods

 
 By: ei8htohms : October 19th, 2008-08:47
Hi Kong, There may be quantitative tests used by engineering schools or other disinterested organizations to measure the efficiency of an automatic winding mechanism, but I am not aware of them or what they would involve. One can only assume that differen... 

Efficiency testing

 
 By: BDLJ : October 19th, 2008-22:48

further technical observations

 
 By: jfsuperior : October 19th, 2008-07:39
John, As a watchmaker I appreciate your technical input and I raise similar concerns though I would like to see the Bucherer movement in my hands to reach any definitive conclusions. But, I've attached a photo I stitched together of three different automa...  

thanks Jack, interesting info about the Perrelet design

 
 By: ei8htohms : October 19th, 2008-09:05
Hi Jack, I also would like to see the Bucherer movement in person, but it would take some kind of quantitative testing or substantial anecdotal reporting from wearers and watchmakers working on the movement to convince me of how ell it actually works. I'v...