variations within brands

Sep 19, 2014,13:51 PM
 

i enjoy this sort of discussion. i realize its futility, but as a admirer of all levels of quality and prestige, it gives me a rare opportunity to engage in this wonderful community. some responses to a few of your comments:

 

1. Zenith - 4 for El Primeros, 5 for all others, 7 for Cal 135s

    you find the 135 over-rated? i've never handled one, so i suppose that's fair. i owned a cal 133.8 for a time and found it to be excellent. i would say it is a 4.

2.Longines - has changed dramatically over last 2-3 years: 8 for 13zn, 6 for 30ch, 5 for all 'time only'

    this is a new phenomema, i think. i used to get into particularly strong-worded arguments with another chap only 5 years ago about which brand was more un-appreciated; eterna or longines. now, longines has come full circle.

4. JLC - 8 for Polaris (I know many in forum will disagree, but I think it's a hyped model - although I have one myself and love it), 7 for Geophysic, but 4 for many others (Futurematic, Quatermaster)

     i have read that the vintage JLC bumper movements are very complex and not easily serviced. i find that, as i age, ease of service is somethign i think of often, and i alter my regard for a brand based on whether i have a good chance of encountering trouble when i need some work done.

5. Rolex - 9 for Daytonas, 10 for PN Daytonas, 6 for Seadwellers, 7 for Submariners, 5 for Milgauss 1019/Explorer II

     asothers have pointed out, rolex is a thing unto itself for reasons wholly unrelated to horology. i politely bow out of that discussion.

10. Eterna - 3 for Kontikis, 4 for rest

     ahh, my light, my love. eterna eternally! i actually find that good examples of the super kon-tiki attains a fairly excellent price. commensurate, i think, with other dive watches of similar pedigree. but there is one thing about eterna that seperates it from its competition in the golden age of the 50s and 60s- production numbers. rolex and omega were making millions of watches. eterna made fewer. far fewer. they ran through a million serial numbers in about 10 years. but...scarcity is meaningless without a robust market in pursuit. the prices have risen, but i'm often surprised by how cheaply some good watches sell for.

13. Omega - 8 for some chronographs (33.3), but 4 for some seventies models, 5 for Constellations - overall 5 (think still fairly valued)

     the vintage market for omegas is pure treachery! bad redials, movement swaps, frankenwatches...all par for the vintage omega course. i adore my simple, beautifully aged 503 seamaster. i wear it often and admire its quality. but i doubt i have the stomach to wade into those waters again.

 


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Rating of vintage watches in market

 
 By: RDL : September 18th, 2014-07:25
To the communiy: Triggered by looking at Zenith vintage watches recently, I was debating with myself if/how under-valued Zenith watches (especially El Primeros) are compared to others. So I tried to assess 'how under-valued'...leading to thinking about ot... 

You forgot some great ones, like Tissot and most of all, Lemania. ;)

 
 By: amanico : September 18th, 2014-07:38
Leroy, too... And what about Minerva? Blancpain? Tudor? It is impossible to answer to your question, for me. Why? Because some specific watches in each of these brands have more value watches from other : A Longines 13 ZN mushroom pushers, black dial is a... 

+1, where do we stop?

 
 By: ztirual : September 18th, 2014-14:01
We'll said Nico! Big differences within a make, within a model and even within a case reference, just I illustrate the 13ZN example... Then we have to take into account the condition of the watch... Where do we stop? Are Renault cars from 1940-70 cheaper ... 

I must confess that I know almost nothing about the Citroen and Renault prod from these

 
 By: amanico : September 18th, 2014-14:10
Years, but I get your idea very well. ;) Yes, too many factors, détails, to make a solid statement. But we can already say that there is a serious life outside the usual suspects ( Patek / Rolex / Panerai ( Vintage ) / and so on ), and that the outsiders ... 

Your last remark..

 
 By: ztirual : September 18th, 2014-14:41
Just my thoughts! You already said enough when mentioning Tissot & Lemania... ;-)

i'll play

 
 By: eterna-fan : September 18th, 2014-17:11
- Zenith - 6. i think the more average vintage pieces are elevated by the excellent chronographs and the 135. - Movado - 4. very good quality. vintage collectors don't seem to love them enough. - Omega - 7. although it is a brand i love, the current price... 

I certainly can't argue with you about Eterna.

 
 By: mkvc : September 18th, 2014-22:52
A vintage Eterna is always a pleasure. I can't comment on all the brands proposed by RDL, but I have a few comments, each of which illustrates the difficulty of making this type of evaluation: 1. In the top tier, AP and Vacheron are very good values compa... 

great points MKVC

 
 By: RDL : September 19th, 2014-00:37
Very good points. Fully agree on Rolex, although most say over-valued (see my rating below), I also think one has to see Rolex differently. As an investment which so far has never disappointed. So, 'the market' is getting it right then. But, still, for my... 

well

 
 By: eterna-fan : September 19th, 2014-13:28
i wouldn't say that vintage IWC are given away. but again, i am working in a realm that most posters here would consider bottom feeding. i have purchased some very beautiful vintage watches. they are true manufacture movements that represent excellent hor... 

here my take

 
 By: RDL : September 19th, 2014-00:32
First, thanks for playing Eterna-Fan and understanding the spirit of my question. Obviously, such a question is always 'too general' because ultimately you have to go to the level of an individual watch to assess it's value (condition etc.). But, again ,t... 

variations within brands

 
 By: eterna-fan : September 19th, 2014-13:51
i enjoy this sort of discussion. i realize its futility, but as a admirer of all levels of quality and prestige, it gives me a rare opportunity to engage in this wonderful community. some responses to a few of your comments: 1. Zenith - 4 for El Primeros,... 

Good points

 
 By: RDL : September 20th, 2014-05:17
Eterna Fan, interesting points! I also enjoy this discussion and also prefer it to simply posting watch photos. You have made me rethink: I have a extensive Zenith Cal 135 collection but bought most many years ago at much lower price levels. So my view mi... 

I can't believe I missed this thread . . .

 
 By: Dr No : September 21st, 2014-13:44
. . . until just now. :-) This is the sort of discussion we should be having more often. Thanks very much, R, for initiating it. As for my purely subjective opinion, the two manufacturers whose vintage products are trading for substantially a different am... 

Art....you are making me smile!

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : September 22nd, 2014-02:39

Omeeeegahhh . . .

 
 By: Dr No : September 22nd, 2014-03:35
. . . Omeeeegahhh ;-) . . .

Oh.....me.....ga(nna) get some

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : September 22nd, 2014-03:37

That's . . .

 
 By: Dr No : September 22nd, 2014-03:41
. . . the spirit! :-)

good points Art!

 
 By: RDL : September 23rd, 2014-02:55
Art, apologies for not responding earlier and thanks a lot for chiming in! BTW: I always enjoy your insightful posts in the different threads here in this great forum. I appreciate your thoughts and find your points very valid. Especially as a chronometer... 

IWC

 
 By: RDL : September 23rd, 2014-02:58
Art, can yo explain a bit more your IWC experience? Was it a problem to find spare parts? I do like the 666/866 Ingenieurs, and a couple of 854x movement models.

Only with . . .

 
 By: Dr No : September 23rd, 2014-13:24
. . . clenched teeth! The short version of the long story is that I acquired a '50 IWC cal 89 from a reputable source who acknowledged the watch needed servicing, and priced it accordingly. The first watchmaker found a problem with the seconds pinion, but...  

maintenance

 
 By: eterna-fan : September 24th, 2014-08:32
i think this the pivotal point behind vintage collecting now. for instance, in my small, northern california town, there used to be a handful of watch repairmen. now, there are only two- and both have issues that make them less than attractive opitions. i... 

LOL. Wise words! [nt]

 
 By: amanico : September 24th, 2014-09:04