nickd
1591
...and another bubble lurking after the first one...
Jan 13, 2012,12:01 PM
Hi Steve,
Nice post. I gave up following new watches a few years back as the prices went up in proportion to the square of the increase in their diameters, and am more than happy in the relatively sane world of clocks.
I suspect there's a second bubble waiting to happen when enough people discover the cost of servicing or repairing and the market starts flooding with unserviced, unrepaired expensive watches. And I even more strongly suspect that this will hit the uber-expensive exotics even more. You can get a skilled/willing watchmaker to make you things like chronograph register springs or other parts, but no one but the original manufacturer is going to replace parts made out of sintered unobtainium with kryptonite PVD. And this is even more crucial for parts that were designed mathematically and manufactured to extreme tolerances.
Try getting a "simple" minute repeater repaired and setup correctly, but check your back balance before you do so. What's it going to cost to fix a G&F tourbillon?
nick
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An Industry in Danger
By: SteveH : January 13th, 2012-08:21
First a quick update. For those who don't know, I left MB&F in December to pursue opportunities outside of the watch industry. As such, I am just a regular Purist once again. My opinion clearly is not representative of any brand, and in fact I can definit...
Interesting Post, Steve. A few other thoughts
By: jkingston : January 13th, 2012-09:27
First one correction. 10 years ago a Patek perpetual chrono did not cost $35K. List price was about double that--$70K (I am assuming you are talking about the 3970, which was the model then in existence). I share your worry about prices however. I am seei...
There's no question there are great products right now
By: SteveH : January 13th, 2012-09:33
You know that I love watches and will continue to. But the industry is doing their best to kill the goose laying the golden eggs. Customers are leaving and not coming back. You know a lot of collectors - don't you already see the burnout? I certainly do.
Jeff
By: Mostel : January 13th, 2012-10:13
I feel that Steve was talking about something more personal than Omega movements... Omega came to mind, too, for me, when Steve mentioned 9K. But as good of quality as the Omega may be... it is a soulless watch in my opinion, utterly. Sorry! But I feel th...
Quod demonstrandum erit ...l
By: Marcus Hanke : January 15th, 2012-10:22
" ...Look at Omega's new chronograph movement: free sprung balance, co-axial escapement, silicium hairspring, column wheel control, vertical clutch, co-axial minute and hour counters and date indication." Beyond doubt,all - or most of this - is new. But i...
I agree with you
By: dr.kol : January 13th, 2012-09:47
and I am trying my best to focus on other fields of activities. It is quite insane that i.e. Patek's 5140P is costing the average two years net salary of an academically educated Finn. And still Finland is among the richest countries in the world. When th...
Thank you Steve
By: Mostel : January 13th, 2012-09:57
This quote describes much more than the watch industry. "95% of the artists are untalented dilettantes who in most cases don’t even understand what art is and that it is their job to make it. " Your candor is really appreciated, it makes someone lik...
Where art is in watches
By: Dje : January 13th, 2012-10:18
Hi Steve, I can't say I disagree with what you wrote, even if I agree largely with what Jeff wrote (if Mr Kingston allows me to call him Jeff). Yes prices are getting insane (even if those prices pay my trip to Geneva monday, I realize that). I'm an educa...
Very interesting post SteveH
By: emcquillan : January 13th, 2012-11:18
And I have been thinking the same thing. Pricing is out of control, 99% of the products are awful and there is a massive bubble, which will take a decade or two to recover from when it bursts. That's why I buy very selectively only what I truly love so if...
Not calling for death of...
By: SteveH : January 13th, 2012-11:55
Not calling for death of retail, just a rethinking of the approach! Some do a great job, many do not, all could benefit from some structural changes sent from my phone
...and another bubble lurking after the first one...
By: nickd : January 13th, 2012-12:01
Hi Steve, Nice post. I gave up following new watches a few years back as the prices went up in proportion to the square of the increase in their diameters, and am more than happy in the relatively sane world of clocks. I suspect there's a second bubble wa...
58 years later and on my wrist
By: Nonpedestrian : January 18th, 2012-03:23
Was cleaning a drawer at my mother's home, found a 1950's Le Coultre Futurematic that was probably in a drawer for 20 years. Brought to my local watchmaker. He smiled from ear to ear. Few hundred dollars later, fully lubed and tuned, while lacking 50 year...
Definitely true Steve
By: ticktockforever : January 15th, 2012-03:46
I agree with your thoughts on the pricing trend of most brands. In fact, brands that are part of the bigger groups are probably the ones "guilty" of upping the pricing. Since when does a 3 handed ETA movement watch goes for $4k list? But I guess the brand...
That will be such a
By: ArthurSG : January 16th, 2012-20:36
good fit don't you reckon. A chewy HM3, a H-Wing HM4, A couple of LM1s or whatever moniker they go by on each side of Princess Lea's head... An R2HM2 and a CPHM1... and all with a nice star wars fantasy story as a selling angle.
Great post Steve and an appreciated viewpoint from an "insider"
By: Mel : January 13th, 2012-14:33
Thanks so much for your insight. I agree with every one of your points. I often wonder who's buying all these new watches from all these new and established watchmakers and it seems that anyone with graphic skills can CGI a watch, test the market, then se...
Yes indeed; some subtleties
By: Nomer : January 13th, 2012-15:14
Steve, thank you for the excellent post. The watch industry today reminds me a bit of the portable tape players of the '70s and '80s. There were many versions of the Walkman, but they were all, well, tape players. A similar analogy is that the industry is...
Thanks for sharing your thoughts
By: iim7v7im7 : January 13th, 2012-18:28
Steve, Some thoughts in response to your post... Regarding prices, yes they have gone crazy. It has been accelerated by devaluing currency and market demand. To quote Warren Buffett: "Only when the tide goes out do you discover who's been swimming naked."...
Thanks for all the great comments
By: SteveH : January 13th, 2012-18:52
I enjoyed reading through them. It seems many of the points hit home for many people. Perhaps I should have titled point 2, point 1a. I am not calling for the death of retail. It is great to have great dealers. However, if we agree that Watches in general...
A very provocative post!
By: Gary G : January 13th, 2012-21:14
One of the immediate thoughts that it spurred was that the very thing that a lot of collectors -- including myself -- are doing may be getting us into more trouble. I refer to the "flight to quality," in which we sell a number of modestly priced and mid-p...
Very interesting read, Steve.
By: dxboon : January 13th, 2012-22:02
Thanks for your perspective. State of the industry aside, tell me, do you still LOVE watches themselves as passionately as you did before becoming an industry professional? Cheers, Daos
I have more appreciation for...
By: SteveH : January 13th, 2012-22:12
I have more appreciation for some and less for some. Overall I am slightly less interested now but that has nothing to do with in or out - I love the learning aspect about a new hobby and feel a bit out of that phase with this one. sent from my phone
Certainly understandable.
By: dxboon : January 13th, 2012-22:22
I look forward to your next phase in hobbies, and hope you'll share your experiences with us! Daos
"most of this stuff is shit"
By: ArthurSG : January 13th, 2012-22:56
whilke I am sure we read different meanings in to this, just on the surface level of this statement to watches, I must say I generally agree.
'Soul' is what separates 'art' from 'entertainment'...
By: Ornatus-Mundi : January 15th, 2012-11:10
and here is where the watch industry is in great danger to get their knickers in a twist. In the former days horological production was constrained by material and skill but also by the pride of the craftsmen and -women. You could to that, but you don't b...
I agree 100% and ...
By: nilomis : January 15th, 2012-14:24
Magnus, A large portion of the current lack of soul is a simple consequence of the lack of watch education of the newcomers (or new money). If you look on the advertising material of the past, they had, give or take, an educational content. They used to e...
I wonder
By: Roger Kint : January 15th, 2012-16:25
The prices do seem more inflated as I have walked through ADs over the years. At the same time, I have spent less time in ADs over the years because most of the watches do seem so similar with one brand or product line blending into another. However, I ag...
thank you
By: optionc : January 15th, 2012-22:15
Steve, Thanks for your thoughtful post. I agree w/ much of your commentary around the price increases that seem to outpace reason... but not demand. Short-sightedness by an industry that has reset it sights on 'new markets'. And an explosion of brands and...
"Felt" consent
By: anaesdoc : January 16th, 2012-03:19
Dear Steve, I am no expert in the watch business nor in watch making, just a dedicated amateur attracted by these lovely little wrist marvels. I do not possess high-end watches like some of the folks around here, just plain, simple timepieces. So I cannot...
Fantastic reading.
By: VMM : January 17th, 2012-04:46
I'm IN the watch industry, for five years now, and I have to agree with many of your comments and words. This post gives me wings (even more) to go ahead with a new project I have had in mind for a very long time, thanks. Best. Vte
Same feeling with you
By: Albert.J : January 17th, 2012-11:53
i was very surprised at the price when i was new to watches. what made me more surprised than the retail price was the rate of inflation and the period of inflation. some of my favourite brands (im not sure about all other brands) has been raising the pri...
My thoughts on price
By: Albert.J : January 17th, 2012-12:11
i was very surprised at the price when i was new to watches. what made me more surprised than the retail price was the rate of inflation and the period of inflation. some of my favourite brands (im not sure about all other brands) has been raising the pri...